Image: Councillor Bob Stone asks councillors to consider building a multi-use facility on the rectangle shown on Muskoka Heritage Place lands or any other lands in the area including lands owned by the Town across from the Denovo Treatment Centre.
Councillor Bob Stone tried to hit the brakes on a motion from the Community Services Master Plan & Waterfront Strategy Committee asking staff to examine the history and legal commitments and boundaries related to The Lions Lookout field in consideration of building a new multi-use outdoor recreational facility ‘on the field of the Lions Lookout track.’
“For me, Lookout field is one of the most precious natural gems we have in our community and I think it’s perfect just the way it is. My worry is you start building up there— that building won’t stop.” Stone, who attended the committee where the issue was discussed, said what is currently being proposed involves a parking lot, covered pavilion, changeroom, washrooms and “soon there’ll be concession stands, storage units, more parking needed up there and we will lose this natural gem.” Stone also said servicing the area could cost $1 million.
“Former Mayor Claude Doughty tried to build the Waterloo building up there which is now Denovo and the public rose up and said ‘don’t you dare,’ so it was not built there. I’ll also add that one-third of the committee that voted for this motion voted against it,” added Stone.
Stone told Huntsville’s October 25 General Committee that in 2017 council received a consultant’s report with various proposals for Muskoka Heritage Place (MHP). He said one of the recommendations involved a covered pavilion. “That is what I’m proposing, that this covered pavilion not go out on (Lions) Lookout field and… go to Muskoka Heritage Place.”
Stone said he and Councillor Scott Morrison walked the site and it’s “absolutely viable.” He said there is a flat area but two or three of the buildings may have to be relocated. He provided the committee with a map of the suggested location, which he said was larger than two NFL-sized fields. Stone said it’s closer to services. “It would be absolutely beautiful looking over Cann Lake.” Stone provided an amendment to the motion to not only look at the Lions Lookout field but at Muskoka Heritage Place as well.
“Lookout field is the most beautiful natural gem that we have and it’s perfect just the way it is,” reiterated Stone.
Councillor Morrison, who chairs the committee that is looking at the issue, said: “I’ll be honest, originally when I got into wanting an outdoor facility like this, I did not want it at Lions Lookout, I wanted it at MHP.” Morrison said he started doing some research and it didn’t seem like that was possible. “Now, Councillor Stone and I are looking at it and it may be possible, so I’m not against it going at MHP.” Morrison said the motion is to look into the legal agreements to see if Lions Lookout can be considered at all “because sometimes it’s not a process of selection, it’s a process of elimination.”
Morrison agreed that Lions Lookout and Pitman’s Bay are two gems in Muskoka but he said Lions Lookout is an underutilized gem “and nobody gets to use it and see it because we don’t do anything with it. People walk the track and that’s it.”
He said a sub-group of the committee he chairs looked at various options and at the end of the day the Lions Lookout field was deemed to be most suitable because of its proximity to the Canada Summit Centre and the opportunity to use it for day camp programming. Morrison said right now when youth use the area they can only use it for a limited time due to the heat because there is no covered shelter there. He also said the Zamboni can get up there to clear snow so another piece of equipment would not have to be purchased. Referencing Stone’s $1 million estimate to have the area serviced he said it would need further investigating as he thought it could be done for much less.
Morrison said he supports the amended motion put forth by Stone because it looks at both locations. “I don’t see Lions Lookout field as having concession stands and all these other things. What we’re proposing today… the idea of potentially putting a multi-purpose facility for lacrosse, concerts, weddings, hockey and everything else,” said Morrison, adding that he and one of the committee members approached the Legion to find out if they’d be in support of the project if they were involved, Morrison said they were “enthusiastically” in support. “So I don’t think we’d have the same issues Mayor Doughty had because we’re proactively reaching out to the communities that could object.”
One by one councillors weighed in.
Councillor Monty Clouthier said the Lions Lookout field has to be looked at as an option. “We can’t just say no we’re not gonna look at it because in the past experience… times change, people change, views change,” said Clouthier, adding that if the multi-purpose facility goes to MHP, it would require a separate entrance. Clouthier said he thought the cost for servicing would be relatively the same at either site but moving buildings at MHP would be expensive.
Councillor Cory Clarke said he’s not in favour of changing the Lions Lookout field either. He also said the municipality is already struggling to set aside funds for its capital asset management plan and building such a facility would add to it. “So I don’t think I’ll be supporting this motion,” he said, later noting that he would vote in favour of the motion because it was only looking for more information.
Deputy Mayor Dan Armour said it is a facility that the community does need although he was not particularly in favour of building it at the Lions Lookout field either. He spoke of the possibility of building it on land the municipality has near the McCulley Robertson Sports Complex. Jason FitzGerald inquired about lands on Forbes Hill across from Denovo.
Morrison reminded the committee that a subcommittee looked at many other locations including McCulley Robertson. “The reason we need this facility is because our town is growing. When we get to 40,000 people down the road, we’re probably going to need more soccer fields, baseball fields and everything else,” said Morrison adding that by putting the facility in the McCulley area it would impede future expansion of the same. He reminded councillors that the motion was simply asking staff to seek further information.
Councillor Helena Renwick said if it was in fact determined that the facility is required, she’d prefer to see it at the Lions Lookout area. She said the covered facility referred to by a consultant in 2017 at MHP was more of an arts and cultural facility rather than a sports facility, which she said would be better suited for Lions Lookout. “I think having an outdoor facility where you could have lacrosse, basketball, skating…I think it’s a natural fit for up there and you could still keep the natural beauty of that location… it’s not taking up the entire field,” said Renwick.
Councillor Dione Schumacher said she’s torn but likes the idea of exploring options further. She also reminded councillors of the history of skating on Cann Lake.
Armour suggested that the motion include exploring all options. Huntsville CAO Denise Corry told councillors that would take a lot more time. Mayor Nancy Alcock reminded councillors that other options had already been explored but she’d agree on adding MHP as another location.
Schumacher said the two locations are the closest to the Town’s resources. In the end, a majority of councillors agreed to a motion asking staff to explore Lions Lookout field and MHP and abutting land for a multi-use outdoor facility.
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Chas Clark says
With a 6 % raise in our rates this year and similar expected for next year, why are the Council even thinking of building another recreational facility (was the figure of $1 million quoted) when it is not needed?
Wilf McQuinn says
If memory serves me, last year there was a Toronto Maple alumni game played in town, hosted by Rotary. I thought that the funds raised from that event would go toward the possibility of a new outdoor rink at Lions Lookout area. Has that idea been forgotten already?
Susan Godfrey says
Councillor Morrison, what is wrong with having the Lions Lookout “underutilized” as you say? I don’t agree; that lovely, pristine area had been well used and loved as Councillor Stone says “just the way it is”. Just because all is quiet about developing it…think back..all was quiet before Claude Doughty tried to put the Waterloo Building there and we the people let him know, unequivocally, that wouldn’t work for us. Save all the expense and leave it the way it is.
Allen Markle says
Councillor Stone et al: Are you serious?? Will there be another consulting firm, such as ‘Lord’ to work up a proposal to the tune of another considerable expense? I’m sure there is still a copy of their proposal around town hall… somewhere. If not I have a copy you can borrow.
The proposal was to give Heritage Place the ability to cater to a wider variety of activities, such as weddings, family picnics, school and private functions. There was to be a pavilion, Victorian style, with bbq facilities and actual ‘facilities’. ‘Nuff said about that eh!! But in the end it was just another bunch of money spent with nothing accomplished.
Helena: I don’t remember this having been proposed as an art venue, though I can’t imagine anyone would be adverse, should someone want to display a sculpture or hang up a painting.
It always amazed me that the town placed no value whatsoever on a property with a lovely little lake. Over the years the town has put the creek in a buried culvert, filled in Cann Bay and the most recent assault had tons of clay bulldozed into the marsh on the village side. Like we needed a clay beach! The property lost some mature pine and white birch when about 10 feet of the trunks were encased in clay.
The overall price tag for the project in 2017 was an estimated $950,000.00. And what is being proposed now looks to have much grander intention. So I don’t see there being too frantic an effort to “hit the brakes” on the project. I imagine it will just ‘whine’ down. But I wonder if there is another consultant in the offing? It must be easier to spend $20,000.00 for some suggestions, rather than a million to actually do it. Does the town need such a venue? Likely. But there is still the money problem.
There are the functions of a town to deal with folks, but you seem to like firing into a well. Seemingly fond of the noise.
Doug Austin says
Hmmm, I recall a survey a while back recommended a shelter but don’t recall a multi-use facility being requested.
A bit of a quandary, as the outdoor rink at Lions Lookout is well used, when we are able to have ice.
Building a multi-use “facility” which implies more than just a roof, but all services, washrooms, parking etc., as noted by the Councilors, this pretty-much eliminates the outdoor rink with it’s peace and quiet.
Further, the lower trail around the look out would likely be heavily impacted.
Its a peaceful spot, right in town.
A general use “shelter” on the grounds of MHP could have many uses for events to partner with MHP.
Just some thoughts…
Bill Beatty says
Remember Folks ….Needs Not Wants .
With an obvious high cost of construction , how many Taxpayers will actually make use of it ?
A multi purpose facility with Stakeholder input & money ( The Curling Crew , Pickle Ballers ,Tennis Group etc.) Fundraiser, would take the tax burden from many who would never use the proposed Field proposal .Large dollar projects need to benefit ALL !
Dayna Wilmon says
Please don’t change the Lions Lookout field at all. This is a beautiful piece of property. Many, many people including my self, my daughters , my 94 year old dad and 86 year old mom use this property almost daily. We have watched multiple generations of deer grow up. Enjoyed looking at the stunning rock cuts, and most importantly having the opportunity to be active while enjoying peace and tranquility. My husband and I have lived in Huntsville for over 30 years and feel we should be able to enjoy a little piece paradise especially with all the development going on in the town. Once it’s touched we can’t go back. Councilors please let it be.
Thomas R Spivak says
I just don’t know what to say anymore, we struggle to pay taxes and the very people that are supposed to be managing and using our money have lost all connection with reality.
One over cost project after another.
Dudley Reid says
Before criticizing Council, as you should, maybe direct your ire at the keeper of the funds – the high paid staff. Any SMART business CEO, in this case the Mayor, would not even entertain such a blatant waste of money, when the rest of the business is struggling.
What is the number one need identified by staff, and spend the funds there. An old axiom – manage by objective. Needs not wants. Woof
David I Gibson says
Thank you Bob Stone. This area is a gem in its current state simply because it is NOT over-developed. It is well-used and highly appreciated. Please leave it alone.
Debi Davis says
Councillor Clarke is correct to point out that Huntsville already has a problem with its capital asset management.
Please just stop and find a way to pay for what is already there. As Bill B says, needs not wants.
And for crying out loud, please fix more roads.!!!
Paul Johnston says
This Mayor and Councilhave lost touceh with reality. First why must this Council continue to destroy the character of this town. We cannot continue to carve up this town irresponsibly. Secondly this council remines me of a little kid in a candy store. Spendspend spend. If not this site then they want to spend on painting crosswalks or whtaever. They are destrouying the character fabric of this town.
Wendy Brown says
Leave it alone. Is that not part of the land bought to remember the first world war? If i remember correctly we had a picnic building at camp kitchen but the town didnt maintain it. So it was demolished. All the docks that were along the river same story. Im still upset the town sold the railway station. They do dumb things that cost tons, and never consider asking the people who live here what they want. Why ask some company that dosnt belong here or know the town what to do. Oh yeah and get charged a fortune for there opinion.
Stephanie Braithwaite says
Well said Paul Johnston!!! Our council and mayor have lost perspective of what this town is all about. We need other people on our council and a new mayor! As well as the money involved I believe council continually upset some if the residents here. Have you ever surveyed what your taxpayers think – I’m sure you haven’t and don’t intend to!!
Stanley Moulson says
It’s a no brainer. Leave the Lookout alone. It would seem our town council likes to be a little loose with the purse strings and make a mockery of the budgetary system. Here’s a little reminder of our “Spendthrifts” at work in the first eight months of their tenure.
$25,000.00 from the Art Acquisition Fund for a Request for Proposal for art installation in Kent Park. (This may have been repealed)
$5,000.00 for water access improvement at Camp Kitchen.
$20,000.00 from working capital reserves for communication tower.
$40,000.00 from the building stabilization fund for a meeting room. (Don’t they already have one?)
$10,000.00 from parks reserves for Fairy Lake Tyland Park.
$53,000.00 from working capital reserves for Meadow Park.
$12,000.000 from working capital reserves for Anthony Court.
$25,000.00 from reserves for a climate consultant.
$480.000.00 from fleet capital reserves for equipment repairs.
$100,000.00 from human capital reserves for a new strategic planning position.
$75,000.00 for new Committee Coordinator.
$56,000.00 to create parking at the Annex. (Next to the library).
$34,000.00 from the working reserves for staff furniture.
$21,300.00 for new defibrillators from recreation reserves
$26,000.00 from the IT reserves for council chamber audio upgrades and
$25,000.00 for a consultant for a Building Management Plan from council chamber reserves.
These expenses may have been necessary however my question is, why weren’t these expenses included in the 2023 budget? I’m pretty sure they didn’t just pop up overnight.
Also, let’s not forget about the $630,000.00 public washrooms for River Mill Park. Then of course there is going to be the $20,000.00+ for the consultant to help figure out where this new multi-sport complex is going to be when common sense would say McCulley- Robertson Sports Complex. It has the words Sports Complex right in the name.
We need to keep a close eye on this administration folks. Don’t forget, government spending is taxpayers’ money.
Brian Tapley says
I wonder, do we somehow need to develop every square meter of land we can see?
What is wrong with some quiet, natural spaces?
MPAC always says that they wish to assess land based on it’s “highest and best use” but nobody seems to agree on whom is to make the decision about what is this use. Maybe some more natural forest and undisturbed spaces are indeed a “highest and best use” in disguise and we just can’t see this… yet!
I find that development is a bit like cancer, it gradually takes over all empty space until the original town entity exists no more. In some cases it kills the host and moves on. In others it just sort of takes over and grows and changes everything until the original is no longer recognizable.
Strangely, all the tourists I see are breathlessly in love with our area simply because it is not all developed like the city they come from but once they move here, the first thing they want to do is import all the city features. Do they not realize that over a short time this will make a town like Huntsville no different than Orillia, Barrie or the surroundings of Toronto, the very places they come away from for their holiday?
On a maybe more practical level, before embarking on expensive new developments, how is the town doing on paying off the last few years worth of indebtedness? this should come first so the interest is not eating up a lot of your taxes.
Nancy Long says
How about we get the town to incentivize development where it’s needed. Like the old Empire Hotel site!
Susan Godfrey says
Brian Tapley makes some good points and shows insight..Town Council should heed his words.
Douglas Wilson says
The big spenders had better realize that a recession looms, this will impact every taxpayer.
Louise Parrott says
Well said Brian Tapley! Huntsville is fast “paving over paradise”.
Murray Christenson says
I suggest council figure out how to get the washrooms installed in the park before they try tackling this…smh! If they take the time to read the numerous comments here, I think they can get a feel for the public mood on this and move on.