Hugh Mackenzie
Huntsville Doppler
While there is really nothing good one can say about a pandemic, the resulting lockdown has had some positive aspects. Not many, but some.
It has given us time to reflect, to see how some things can be done differently, to watch, and hopefully be wary, as various political agendas are pushed forward on the back of the pandemic, and to see clearly how some people really are living on the edge.
We will get through this pandemic. But when we do, the world will be different. There can be no doubt about that. Perhaps we need to be different too.
Canada will be facing massive debt and deficit problems for years to come. The manner in which many people work will change. It will be a long time before employment comes back to where it was three months ago and while there will inevitably be opportunity, it will also be harder for some people to get ahead. For certain, many things will be done differently.
During the past six weeks, I have crystalized my thinking about a guaranteed basic income for all adult Canadians and have concluded that, in some form, its time has come.
Coming from me, this will surprise some folks as many believe that a guaranteed income smacks of socialism. But I am not so sure anymore.
I first started thinking about this when Hugh Segal, a Conservative, albeit a Red Tory like me, wrote a report for the Wynne Liberal Government recommending a pilot project for a guaranteed basic income. Hugh Segal is a former senator and was chief of staff to Ontario Premier Bill Davis and Prime Minister Brian Mulroney. He is also a friend of mine, a former colleague, and a great Canadian! If he believed that a basic guaranteed income was a necessary human right, then it was something I needed to think about.
I am also keenly aware that the Ford Government scrapped the pilot project initiated by its predecessor but given recent events, I predict it will be reinstated in some form before Doug Ford leaves office.
For more than half a century, a tradition in our family has been to have a “boy’s lunch” during the Christmas season. This past December, I listened carefully as my nephews, both successful entrepreneurs, made the case for a basic guaranteed income. Then came the COVID-19 pandemic and I saw how quickly many aspects of our society could crumble and how fortunate some of us are to have safety nets while, clearly, many others do not.
And so, I finally concluded that a basic guaranteed income, is a good idea.
Now, to be clear, I am not an advocate of the Robin Hood philosophy: to take from the rich and give to the poor, or that everybody should be paid the same wage. Most people who are wealthy to one degree or another have worked hard for their success and have provided significant employment to others. Many have taken risks that others have chosen not to take. They pay taxes based on income and they support charities. They deserve to keep what they make after that.
The day we eliminate incentives and rewards for excellence and innovation and hard work will be a sad day indeed. One need only look to Cuba, where physicians must also work at airports as baggage handlers to make ends meet, to see how effective that would be.
On the flip side of the coin, I have heard criticism that a basic guaranteed income will encourage people not to work. I disagree with that as well. There will be some of that of course. There already is. But a basic guaranteed income would eliminate much of the need for welfare and, in some but not all cases, disability payments. It would mean that a mother or father staying home to raise their children could do so, and, by the way, that is real work! People living only on a basic guaranteed income would not pay taxes. Their standard of living would be adequate, but it would not be high, and, other than those who cannot work, it would be their choice.
Right now, however, in Canada in 2020 there are many for whom the standard of living is not adequate and, in fact, is well below that. Current signs are that it could get worse. We can argue about whose fault that is, but to me it has become a moot point. In my view, in my Conservative view, it is a human right in this day and age for every human being to have adequate health care, a roof over their head, and food on the table. Some will deserve it more than others, but all have a right to it. A guaranteed basic income would accomplish that, and all taxpayers should support it.
Strange how a lockdown can focus your thoughts, but that is the conclusion I have arrived at. And yes, it took me long enough!
Hugh Mackenzie
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How to build an economy for the 99%__ Co-operative Enterprise Council of New Brunswick was the best article I have read recently on our economy and future possibilities. If you can find it, it is well worth a read. I believe in possibility.
Hey,
Ya it would help peoples health. It would make sure they can put food on the table and pay the rent. Also I’m on ODSP I think maybe you forgot one things about them being able to get there pills and stuff that isn’t covered is something too. Because I don’t get coverage for a pill i need, I cant afford it, so i just deal with pain it does to my body. Unless you did word it differently.
And better benefices. I’m spoust to go to the back Dr. all the time but I can’t afford it. Sooner or later I know I well be in a wheelchair because of my back and cant afford the stuff to do with my back.
So I truthly hope one day it well be better for ODSP and O.W.
I like what u said.
Thanks for finely opening eyes I guess its called. And Its kinda sad that this covid 19 had to happen when some people noticed things. I’m trying to write it nicely. lol.
I hope you keep talking to your people and they might findly see what you say too. but GOOD work man~!
I am so glad to see this conversation commenting on and beginning to explore the subject of a guaranteed minimum income in Canada. HughMac deserves our support for introducing the subject.
I am encouraged by the comment activity over the short period the subject has been posted.
Hugh Holland, in the discussion around minimum basic income ( government provided) notes that Norway has a higher GDP/cap than the USA. Absent is the fact that Norway is a country with a small population, does not underwrite the defence of the free world and has until very recently enjoyed unimaginable income from (gasp!) oil and gas harvesting in the North Sea. The revenues garnered by this small country have exceeded it’s needs for decades and as a result it has salted away billions of
Kroners in a fund and currently holds over a trillion USD in value. Each citizen of Norway effecively holds very close to $200K US in the fund. All from oil and gas revenues. Fossil fuels sales. Carbon fuels sales. Say it how ever you wish these are the same resources Canada has in reserves to be sold to a needy world the sale of which would transform Canada from a terribly indebited country whose citizens dream about guaranteed anual imcome etc. into a country which could pay off our debts and
provide the social benifits we all would like. But we alowed our government to sign onto ruinous environmental agreements which hamstring our ability to enjoy our birthright wealh. No other country has made such sacrifices. It is insanity. We are naive.
The pandemic has been a horrific tragedy for many to be sure. But if there is an upside it may be that it forces a sense of reality upon the thinkers of this country. We need to stop alowing the foriegn funded influences poisoning our societal and political processes. We need to think about our real strengths and how to make them pay off in the short term. The balance of the economy would be changed if Quebec’s hydro foreign sales were federally taxed the same as western enery is.
We have the necesary resources and we need to get them to market. We have so freely spent and borrowed. The piper awaits.
Hugh, it’s no wonder you’re getting accolades for this piece–you pander to the goodness within us all. Sadly, you would need to “rewire” the human psyche to avoid the “guarantee” becoming an updated minimum wage. Who on earth could derive personal satisfaction from being “on the take” while others are forced to work to support the taxes required?
Hugh, show me how a guaranteed income would retain personal respect while being affordable by those who reject it for something better and I could be a supporter. In the meantime, the human being, as he/she is now, is incapable of accepting it while retaining personal dignity.
See what you started, Kathleen May, with your wise and so well-written article on this very subject?
Thank you Hugh McKenzie! GBI may very well be one of the positive outcomes of this pandemic.
Glad to see the comments flowing. Let’s see some real ideas beyond money being merely a belief system. You can’t take a belief system to the bank.
If in this discussion being realistic makes one a cynic I’ll have to wear that label.
Labeling those holding and daring to express inconvenient views is a pretty transparent attempt to shut them down. A discussion where everyone is welcome as long as they don’t force you to think is not very worth while IMHO.
See what you started Hugh?
Good work.
According to the OECD, no country currently has a universal basic income, but several countries are experimenting with the idea. The Scandinavian countries (Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark) are the closest. GDP per capita for Norway, Sweden and Denmark is higher than Canada and Norway is higher than the USA. Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have a Debt to GDP ratio of 37% or less compared to 59% for Finland, 89% for Canada, and 109% for the USA. While USA GDP per capita is higher than all except Norway, the 4 Scandinavian countries rank lower in crime, higher in life expectancy, and rank #1, #2, #3 and # 7 in the world happiness ranking. Canada is #11 and the USA ranks #18 in happiness. The data suggests that having basic needs fulfilled for all citizens does not eliminate incentive but does improve the overall fulfillment of human needs.
Except for Sweden with its herd immunity experiment, these 5 countries with a bigger social safety net seem to have coped better with the pandemic than the US with its smaller social safety net.
Thank you for writing this Hugh.
If GBI is a basic human right, how can you write, “some deserve it more than others”? You are still part of the problem.
So, Hugh, I saw the headline “A Conservative’s view on basic guaranteed income” and came on over here all ready to do verbal battle with you on what I was sure would be a screed laced with right-wing talking points about lazy bums and welfare frauds, written to rebut Kathleen May’s latest “She Speaks”.
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Jaw is dropped! All those resentful thoughts are rescinded! I apologize for having a worse opinion of you than you deserved!
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I’m also delightedly surprised at the openness of my fellow commenters to the idea. Go figure. I hope Doug Ford pays attention!
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Let me mention another likely advantage I can see: a guaranteed basic income (GBI) would promote new entrepreneurship.
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How so? Simple: you wouldn’t have to struggle to find the time and energy to start your business while working full-time (which is particularly hard for women, who are still expected to do the lion’s share of housework and childcare) — or — quit your job and risk destitution if your business doesn’t get started fast enough to replace the lost job income or employment insurance. The GBI would give you a base of financial security — not luxury, but financial security — upon which to build your business. This could be particularly good for people in fields that require a major work commitment before money starts to come in, and/or which traditionally aren’t big money-makers despite their intrinsic value (I am thinking of the arts here). It would also help relatively risk-averse entrepreneurs start up anyway and gain confidence as they build success. I would hope the government wouldn’t claw the GBI back too fast upon increase of income via the business, so as not to discourage them.
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And I’ve thought of more benefits as I write… I can also see it as an aid for post-secondary students to avoid being saddled with crippling student loans while they learn their future professions.
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For people with disabilities… well, let’s just say that ODSP can be a PITA. Getting, keeping and managing it for my two sons, both on the autism spectrum, has been relatively easy, but I’ve seen other people really struggle, and once read a survey on Ontario government services identifying ODSP as one of the most complained-about. Merging it into the GBI program would cut admin expenses and also eliminate entirely the expenses incurred due to disputes over eligibility. This could be particularly good in cases of mental illness. I know two people who cannot hold jobs due to undiagnosed personality disorders (they both match every single diagnostic criterion of each disorder, but the nature of the disorder itself keeps them from seeking help) — so one struggles on welfare and the second exploits others. The GBI would be a help to both and everyone around them.
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I can see the GBI helping new immigrants while they’re settling in and learning the Canadian ropes, victims of domestic abuse fleeing their marriages by necessity, victims of workplace abuse leaving their jobs by necessity, children in financially distressed families (I assume there’d be a GBI for kids…?).
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All kinds of benefits for people who need it… and who would be better able to participate in the economy if they had it, which is good for the economy.
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Glad you support it, Hugh!
Jamie….. you say …… Money is paper and basically a belief system and I think gold is as well….. true, but on the other hand, it can be considered as the energy of the universe. Money makes the world go round. 🙂
Hugh, I so admire you for writing this. In the future when robots do most of the work and there is hardly any work to be done by humans, most people will be unemployed. What do we do with the humans then? Money is paper and basically a belief system and I think gold is as well in the end as Yuval Noah Harari writes in Sapiens. And in the end, what really has an intrinsic value? Only that we take care of one another. The provincial Conservatives under Ford and and the Federal Liberals under Trudeau are doing an good job of taking care of people. I am impressed with them both. But they are printing money and one of the great analyses that will be done when this is all over is what difference does it really make. Will it cause inflation or will it just become a different economic normal. People will always want to make more than a basic income and will work and contribute effort to doing that. I am not afraid of the future you predict. I see it coming too.
Another cynic hits the dust—and Hugh Segal’s legacy grows stronger by the day. I have struggled with all the arguments/challenges you cite, Hugh, but have eventually reached the same conclusion.
Amazing support for universal basic income indicated on this board.
I hope the same posters will continue this discussion including how it will all be paid for.
Manufacturing has all been outsourced to China and Mexico. Agriculture, while strong won’t come close to paying the bills. Oil and gas have the potential to do it but we have decided we need to be “carbon neutral” by 2050 so that’s out.
Id love to see a realistic scenario postulated here.
I’ll be very much on board if the numbers work in a realistic projection but I am, until then a serious sceptic. There is no free lunch. Let us see the numbers.
Cuba is a comunist dictatorship which disapears it’s disidents, was proped up by the Russians and now the Chinese and is in reality starving. A people wanting to flee repression at home, many who have risked life and limb to escape to the USA. The hallmark of a failed, state is having to shoot their own citizens to keep them in the country. Cuba. North Korea. No thank you.
I support universal basic income since our human labor is being pushed aside due to automation and robot before the pandemic. Now it seems to me that it is needed for this crisis. I am glad you and Former PM have raised this idea. I think it’s a good solution for the 21st century.
As written in an article ( in the latest Walrus publication) by Max Fawcett, even a former aide to Stephen Harper is talking about benefits of a Universal Basic Income! You’re in good company Hugh. I appreciate your willingness to consider what works (based on previous test cases in Winnipeg and Lindsay, Ontario) rather than just maintain the Conservative status quo.
Hugh, interesting topic and as you have already said, this concept has been around for many years if not decades. Like any concept, there remains many parameters that must be set and studied. You mentioned Cuba as an example. Cuba has a guaranteed basic income that allows individuals to work and receive funds on top of their guaranteed amount, which supports their biggest employer, the tourist industry. They have free healthcare, free education, free music concerts, art and culture so most are healthy and well educated. $20 to $30 per month seems to be the norm with Doctors getting the 30.
Children get free school uniforms. All housing is owned by the state and allotted to the people ( not sure how) along with their monthly entitlement they also get allotments of rice, dairy and meat with subsidized prices on other items.
Tourists pay in American dollars only and are expensive, locals pay in Pesos inexpensive. Tourist think Cubans are very poor because they don’t wear designer clothes or shoes so they often take these and similar items as gifts for the staff at resorts.
Cuba has 627 Dr. and 94 Dentists per 100,000 people, while the US has 225 Dr. and 54 dentists for the same number. Cuban Universities train some of the best Doctors in the world. A number went to China to assist with the Pandemic. With all this Cuban’s are still not happy and looking to leave if possible.
I would love to see someone create a list of basic family needs. Will this list include free government owned housing, all medical ( including dental, eye care, massage, chiropractics and health care.), will it include free education (including all supplies, accommodation and food), free transportation, free music opportunities and culture and finally free death benefits?
Hugh you also mentioned guaranteed basic income to all adults so I assume from this that there will be NO MEANS TESTS just s distribution such as old age pension to all.
I do agree with you to a point but I’m not sure it should just be handed out to everyone. My thinking is the playing field should be leveled and this is something that has bothered me for years. When I started working in the building business at the age of 16 I earned $1.00 an hour but a journey man carpenter earned $2.00 an hour now a young kid starting would earn $14.00 or maybe $16.00 an hour if they were lucky but I think a journey man carpenter earns in the $40 to $50.00 range there is just to much difference between the low and high earners now this is the same on most jobs just look at the teachers that are going on strike now just away to much difference between teachers and support staff and the list goes on and on . Maybe a guarantied income is the way to go it would sure help a lot of people that are working in pain everyday because it’s to much red tape to get on a disability pension and then if they do it’s not enough to live on. It would also help a lot of families now where they are working 2 or 3 jobs just to make ends meet.
Thanks, Hugh. Just because you wear your Conservative heart on your sleeve, doesn’t mean you give up common sense and humanity. A basic minimum wage is long overdue, as is a serious shake up of the long term care business. Clearly this is seriously broken. It’s time it was fixed.
Hugh,
I am glad to see you have spent some of your lockdown sentence thinking about important issues and about how things could be improved.
Getting to the bottom line, I wonder what basic level of income you might have in mind?
I can see in interesting discussion around that.
The implications are fraught with questions .
you have mentioned all having a right to healthcare. What about dentistry?
I am sure you can see where this leads.
in any case, good on you for beginning this discussion. It will be interesting.
I’ve been tryout to sell guaranteed basic income to my conservative friends for a while as a conservative solution to job displacement from automation; the pandemic has just sharpened the point. GBI means MUCH smaller and more efficient government, less red tape, and a better opportunity for people to re-train and try new things. The workforce will be more portable and people will be happier and more confident not having to worry about paying rent or putting food on the table.
Will wonders ever cease? We agree.
What a timely, reflective and refreshing article. I totally agree with your viewpoint! Why? It all boils down to what kind of world we want to live in. No one should be in a position where they are suffering as a result of circumstances beyond their control. However people should be also incentivized to achieve and be rewarded for that. This pandemic has made us all stop and think. Thank you for this article!
One of my longtime favourite Conservative voices agrees with you
https://www.masseycollege.ca/event/bootstraps-need-boots-by-hugh-segal/