There were cheers and jeers at Huntsville all-candidates debate

The debate raged on at Huntsville’s Algonquin Theatre Wednesday night, as candidates running in the October 19 federal election battled one another to convince the audience who is the best person for the job.

The economy and job creation, Bill C51, climate change, healthcare, support for small businesses, food security, the Liberal’s intended spending spree – these were just some of the topics on the minds of those in attendance.

The economy

Incumbent Conservative MP Tony Clement was criticized for the loss of manufacturing jobs during his mandate. He was asked what he would do to get those jobs back and who he represents at the House of Commons, the Harper government or his constituents.

“I represent the people of Parry Sound-Muskoka. It’s the proudest position I’ve ever held in my life.”tony clement, conservative party

He conceded to the loss of jobs and said the area was “hit hard when the great recession happened, but I’m here to talk about the great successes that are happening in Parry Sound Muskoka too.” Clement cited Crofters Organic in Parry Sound “exporting jam to the world.” He said the same of Muskoka Roastery and its exports abroad. He spoke of the area’s five craft breweries.

From left, Marxist Leninist candidate Albert G. Smith and NDP candidate Matt McCarthy.

“Muskoka Brewery is in the old Alcan plant and it is being re-purposed to manufacture beer.” Clement also spoke proudly of Lofthouse Brass in Burk’s Falls manufacturing valves and exporting them to China. He said he’d like to continue helping local businesses along that path.

Clement countered: “I don’t sneer at any full-time jobs in our community. I don’t care if you’re making jam or car parts – every job is a valuable job in our community.”

Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations were also raised by Smith, who said they would result in more job loss.

Green Party candidate Glen Hodgson agreed. “You know right now as we sit here in this auditorium, they’re negotiating a secret treaty – the Trans-Pacific Partnership.” He said it threatens this nation’s sovereignty, will result in job losses and a degradation of environmental and labour standards. Hodgson said his government would enact “think small first legislation” empowering small and medium business. “Greens understand the importance of small business and the importance of businesses that are tied to the communities.”

“We’ve heard a lot about what small businesses are doing for Mr. Clement, but I’d like to talk about what the NDP is going to do.” NDP candidate Matt McCarthy said the NDP plans to create “quality middle-class jobs in manufacturing that families need to thrive.” He accused the Conservatives of doing nothing to stem the loss of jobs, the Liberals of rubber stamping thousands of foreign takeovers during their time in government, and said he was surprised to hear Justin Trudeau say that Ontario needs to move away from manufacturing. “Those are good jobs and we need to bring them back to Muskoka.”

Liberal candidate Trisha Cowie said this area has the second highest unemployment rate in Ontario. She said a Liberal government would give the middle class a tax break by increasing taxes on the top one per cent of income earners. And she said her government would invest billions of dollars in infrastructure.

“We’ve lost 66,000 jobs in this country in April and yet the government deemed itself worthy of a pay raise. So I think we can start there by cutting their jobs,” Gordie Merton, Canadian Alliance Party.

Canadian Alliance Party candidate Gordie Merton speaks to the audience.

Anti-Terrorism Act, Bill C51

Canadian Alliance candidate Gordie Merton said he vehemently disagrees with Bill C51, which he said is being used as an excuse to trample on Canadians’ Charter of Rights. “Bill C51 shouldn’t have been passed in the first place. It’s a disgrace for this country and around the world,” he said. “We can have security and our Charter of Rights without Bill C51.”

Clement, whose Conservative government enacted the anti-terrorism legislation, was steadfast in its defense.

Clement also said to applause from the audience that any Canadian with dual citizenship who commits a terrorist act, should have his or her Canadian citizenship revoked.

Marxist Lenninist candidate Albert G. Smith had a different take: “True security lies in the fight for the rights of all people and when people have rights they will fight for their rights and defend them.” He said he’s spoken to several law enforcement officials and was told Bill C51 was not necessary for them to do their job.

McCarthy said the NDP have been opposing the bill from the start. “The NDP proposed over 200 amendments to the bill and when they were rejected we voted against it,” he said, adding that should the NDP form government, they are the only party promising to repeal the bill.

“When Matt says he’s the only government that will repeal it, he really needs to read my platform,” noted Hodgson.

“What do Jean Chretien, Paul Martin, Joe Clark and Elizabeth May all have in common? The answer of course is they all came out very clearly against Bill C51.”glen hodgson, green party

Green Party candidate Glen Hodgson

He said the Greens recognized right off the block how dangerous the legislation is. “And the danger comes from not just the bill itself but also what is a terrorist under this bill, because it is very unclear,” Hodgson said to applause. He said the concern is that engaged citizens, like those protesting pipelines, could classify as terrorists. He also expressed concern over the lack of oversight attached to the bill.

Liberal candidate Trish Cowie said terrorism is constantly morphing and Canada needs to stay ahead of it.

“There are some useful things that were in that bill. Our job now is to make sure that amendments are made to make sure that it aligns with our Charter of Rights.” trisha cowie, liberal party

She said the Liberals would go through the bill and make those amendments so that “protesters like environmentalists and native people do not have to be concerned that they’re going to be arrested or taken down for their protests.”

Long-form census and government transparency

Clement again found himself on the defensive. His government was criticized for muzzling scientist and cancelling the long-form census, information, he was told, required to create proper rather than partisan policies.

“If you’re interested in representing all Canadians you want the best information possible. Cancelling the long-form census is wrong.” glen hodgson, green party

Hodgson said the Greens would bring it back again, re-invest in the CBC and re-invigorate the scientific community and “take the muzzle off.”

Cowie said the information garnered from the long-form census is useful for things like not-for-profits and business plans and the Liberals would bring it back. “Unfortunately we have a government that is afraid of information and that’s proven in the way that they control their messages to the public and my friend Glen here pointed out the muzzling of the scientists.”

She also brought up Trans-Pacific Partnership talks. “Why is it clouded in secrecy?”

Smith accused the Conservative government of being “proudly determined to bring us back to the dark ages.”

Clement noted the National Household Survey, which replaced the long-form census, went to one in five households “which experts say provides useful, usable data. We still have the mandatory census, we still have the mandatory labour force survey, there’s lots of useful data out there.”

Clement said Canada is a world leader in the establishment of open data by default. “And I’m proud of the fact that Justin Trudeau is stealing that policy and putting it in his platform…”

Genetically Modified Organisms – ban them?

Clement said he’d be happy to talk about the Conservative’s policy on agricultural issues, which “is based on science,” he said to jeers from the audience. “It’s OK, you can boo the incumbent…,” he said, adding that if there are other countries that have banned the use of GMOs, they’re basing it on “junk science.”

“Oh boy,” exclaimed Merton. He said Russia, France and Germany have banned GMOs. “If the leading powers in this world have banned GMOs, I think it’s time that we should reopen that and take a look,” he said, adding that the position of his party is that “there will be no chemicals in our food.”

Smith called it a no-brainer and it goes right along with the issue of cloud seeding.“It may be a Green saying that if your grandmother wouldn’t recognize it, don’t eat it.”

McCarthy said research funds must be provided to ensure the food that’s put on grocery store shelves is safe. “Right now Canadian research funding is tilted way too heavily toward economic benefit.” He said local food producers and the Canada Food Inspection Agency need to be supported.

Hodgson said he supports labeling to at least give people the ability to choose what they eat. He said the Greens would want to move towards banning GMOs, and he said the Greens have been talking about these issues for years. He said it’s nice to see the other parties have finally caught up to the Greens and are starting to listen.

“What I’m going to ask you is instead of always playing catch-up, we’re asking you to vote for us and to look at our ideas and support our ideas, so we can get out in front of these things instead of playing catch up.” glen hodgson, green party

Cowie had a slightly different take. While she agreed with labeling GMO foods, she called the process a double-edged sword. “I understand that it has been beneficial in helping alleviate some poverty and hunger in the world.”

Clement added that there is a burgeoning food producing market that has received start-up funding and support from the Harper government and it’s an issue that will continue to be on his radar if elected.

Abolishing the Senate and Free Trade?

McCarthy said his government would restore democracy by making sure that un-elected and unaccountable senators shutting down democratically passed legislation are no longer able to do so.

Cowie said there are issues that are much more pressing, adding that her government would put in place an unbiased committee to elect senators. She also reminded those present of senator Romeo Dallaire and the good work he has done.

Smith said his party believes Canada needs a new and modern constitution.

“The constitution that we’re living with today was created in the middle of the 19th Century. This is the 21^st Century and there are vestiges of privilege written directly into the old constitution.” albert g. smith, marxist leninist party

Hodgson said it frustrates him when bad politicians do bad things that reflect poorly on Canada’s political institutions and the constitution.

“I don’t think you throw out the Senate because you have some bad senators.” He said the Greens will propose some possible models to reform the Senate or abolish it only after that option has been taken to the people. “You can decide in a referendum. I’m not going to tell you that we should take down a political institution that’s existed for over 100 years because of some of the things that have gone on now.”

Merton said senators should be voted in, not appointed. And big issues would be taken straight to the people “to eliminate the corporate leashes on the politicians within the House of Commons and the Senate.”

He also said his party would reinstate democracy by getting Canada’s sovereignty back and repealing the North American Free Trade Agreement. “So no more free trade, but rather fair trade.”

“This is kind of bizarre but Albert and I agree and I believe that the Senate is a 19th Century institution trying to be relevant in the 21^st Century. It has to be reformed massively or be abolished.”tony clement, conservative party

Conservative Party candidate Tony Clement.

On free trade, Clement retorted: “We are a trading nation. Our industrial sector can compete with the world and win and if we start closing these doors to trade, we will lose jobs, we will lose opportunity, we will lose economic growth and we will be a backwater and that’s not the way Canadians think. We want to be competitive in the world and Canadians can be.”

McCarthy retorted: “Mr. Clement, if you want to talk about trade while we’re having a discussion about restoring our faith in government, then I would take this opportunity to point out that there is a new rule right now that was inserted shortly before this election began that stated a government would now be allowed to continue a trade deal in the middle of an election when we don’t know who the government will be.”

Climate change

Clement said Harper has committed to reduce carbon emissions by 30 per cent by 2030. “Just as the US and China, just as France and Germany, we are part of that global consensus going into the Paris negotiations.” He said his government plans to meet those goals by making polluters pay, continuing to invest in green technology and ensuring that “we have a robust economy that can power and finance this transition. So I think our approach is balanced and definitely doable.”

Smith said the transition to a greener economy has already begun, but Canada has fallen behind. The Marxist Leninist candidate said Norway nationalized their oil and used that money for infrastructure. “They took the oil money… and they turned that into electrifying the entire country.”

McCarthy said the NDP would remove subsidies to oil companies and invest in clean technology.

“Please don’t tell me that you believe that our current Conservative government is one of the leaders in addressing climate change,” said Hodgson. “You know that that’s not true. The fact is all the other old-line parties, regardless of what they say in terms of a climate change plan, they are all in favour of building pipelines. Those pipelines are going to take tar sands oil out of the ground and going to send it to markets, which are going to increase carbon emissions,” he said. “If you are in favour of pipelines, then your climate change plan is not going to cut it.”

Hodgson noted that his party’s plan to address climate change is the only one that is being supported by David Suzuki.

Cowie said part of the $20 billion infrastructure spending promised by the Liberals will be going to green infrastructure. She also said her party would phase out fossil fuel subsidies and invest that into green technology and research. She also said a Liberal government would work with the provinces to come up with a carbon tax.

“We need to get back to clean energy and clean gas,” said Merton who cited Canola oil. “We can use that.”

Small Business

Cowie was put on the spot when she was asked to respond on behalf of her leader who was heard saying in an interview that most small businesses are nothing but a tax dodge.

“While I can’t extrapolate on Mr. Trudeau’s words, I can clarify that what he was referring to in a larger sense is this idea about using businesses as tax havens and there are loop holes that need to be closed up.” She said her party proposes reducing the income tax rate to small businesses by 2017 from 11 to 9 per cent.

Greens, said Hodgson, will also cut the small business tax and provide incentives and infrastructure support to decrease operating costs.

“I don’t know what Mr. Trudeau was thinking,” said Merton. “Small businesses are hurting. All the way here I was speaking to the taxi driver who was driving me.” He said she told him that her profits were being taxed by government. He agreed with reducing that tax.

Clement said Trudeau’s comments were disappointing. He said his government has reduced and is proposing to continue reducing small business tax.

He warned against the “massive” new payroll tax being proposed by the Liberals. “Similar to what Kathleen Wynne is forcing down your throat here in Ontario and if that comes about throughout the rest of Canada all small business better hold on to their wallets because it is going to be very difficult to continue to operate in places like Huntsville and throughout Muskoka.”

Smith said there is a deficit of things that are made in Canada and there is opportunity for small businesses to help turn that around. “I met a man last night, he said ‘I don’t buy anything from China’ and I was surprised that he was clothed,” he said.

“If we make things in Canada and buy them in Canada and keep them in Canada, that’s the way we can grow. The large corporations are gone. They’re selling more GM cars in China now than they are selling in North America.” albert g. smith, marxist leninist party

McCarthy said he too was surprised with Trudeau’s statements. “I think we need a leader who knows what he’s talking about. Who has a principled experience to lead Canada.”

Cowie talked on the issue of nasty and divisive approaches and asked everyone present to watch the Liberal’s video called The Budget Will Balance Itself. “Don’t take it out of context, watch it in context and watch it make sense.” She also encouraged everyone present to watch the clip with Trudeau’s small business comments. She responded to Clement’s payroll tax comments and reminded those present that it’s not a payroll tax, “Investing in CPP, we’re talking about investing in your future, in your retirement, in giving you a dignified retirement. If we want to talk about what a payroll tax is, I’d be curious to know Mr. Clement what are we paying you for your pension?”

Clement shook his head and retorted “that’s nasty and divisive, that’s nasty and divisive Trisha, apologize.”

Is it wise to run deficits?

Cowie was asked whether spending 20 billion dollars and burdening future generations was wise.

Liberal Party candidate Trisha Cowie.

She replied: “We’re going to be burdening them with failing infrastructure. We need to make this investment now. “We’re at a time where rates are low, we’re also at a time in Parry Sound Muskoka in particular (when) we have infrastructure crumbling beneath our feet.” She made reference to a culvert on Hwy 169, she also spoke of Hwy 141 being shut down. “It’s the perfect time to be investing in this.” Cowie also said investing in infrastructure would create jobs.

“If a leader,” said Merton, “is thinking that it’s good to carry on deficit and debt, maybe we should be looking at a new leader. We already have enough debt to deal with, each of you are dealing with it and we’re dealing with it and we don’t need another one, we don’t need more.”

Clement said his government is in a surplus position to jeers from the audience. “The fact of the matter is that we’re in a surplus and that took a lot of effort and after all of that effort to go back into $10 billion a year deficit… I think is nonsensical, particularly at a time that the economy is growing again.”

Smith said his party believes carrying debts and deficits are always a bad idea, because the rich are the ones who benefit when they buy the bonds the government sells. “You’re paying debt service on this and this takes away from social services and thing that we could be doing in infrastructure. We believe it’s always a bad idea to borrow money.”

McCarthy spoke of the situation in Greece. “What I see happening in Greece is a nightmare. They’re budget is being balanced by foreign governments and banks,” he said, adding that the French word for bond literally means obligation. “It’s an obligation to the creditors.The NDP has a proud history of balancing the books, beginning with Tommy Douglas who balanced 17 budgets in a row and introduced Medicare.”

Greens don’t believe in running deficits either, said Hodgson. “I think the figure on our current deficit is $9 billion a year we pay in interest – that’s money that’s gone.”

He said if you don’t believe in running a deficit you’re going to have to tell people how you are going to pay for your promises and that’s something his party has done. “Our platform is fully costed out. We’re going to cancel the subsidy to fossil fuel industries, saving billions. We’re going to cancel F-35 fighter jets, saving billions and we’re going to put a price on carbon.” The audience applauded.

Cowie referred to the 10-billion-yearly deficit being planned by the Liberals, if they get into power, as moderate. “We’re talking about .5 per cent of our GDP, that’s what 10 billion dollars is. It’s a drop in the bucket,” she said, adding that if Canada’s infrastructure needs aren’t addressed now, they will turn into an even bigger problem later.

And, finally, here’s what they said about healthcare.

McCarthy began by saying he would fight to protect Canada’s healthcare system. He said the NDP plans to work with provincial governments to increase transfer payments so Canadians don’t have to “make excruciating decisions like which towns are going to have a hospital.”

Cowie said the Liberals that day announced that they would be committing $3 billion over the next four years to healthcare and prioritizing home care services. “That doesn’t even include the investment that we’re already making in infrastructure, which includes social infrastructure, such as seniors’ residences.”

She said the Liberals would reduce the cost of medication by buying in bulk. “We’re going to do it the Costco way.” She said the Liberals will work with the provinces to come up with a new healthcare accord “in order to make sure provinces know the amount of funding that they’re going to be getting.We need a new formula.”

Merton said healthcare is a huge issue, especially in his town of Gravenhurst, which has a large elderly population. He said in-home care needs to be updated and better funded. “And the Bracebridge hospital, if anybody’s been there let me know of your experiences because I’ve heard a lot of bad about it so we need to upgrade it there as well.”

Clement reminded those present that hospitals, doctors and nurses fall under the mandate of provincial governments under the Canadian Constitution.

He said the Harper government, since first being elected in 2006, has increased transfer payments to the provinces and territories at six per cent compounded per year, in excess of the rate of inflation and population growth in the country. “For Ontario, that means an extra 10 billion dollars have been transferred by federal government taxes to the provincial Liberal government, here in Ontario,(to) Mr. McGuinty and Ms. Wynne for healthcare purposes. If they can’t manage 10 billion extra dollars to make sure we could have two properly functioning hospitals in the District of Muskoka, that is wrong. That is on their shoulders and we should demand better.” Clement added that he’s been doing just that.

Smith said his party believes that there should be a seamless national healthcare system. “This would stop the passing of the buck from the provincials to the federals,” he said to applause.

Hodgson said there is a crisis coming in healthcare that the other parties haven’t been addressing. “And the crisis is that when our healthcare was founded the average age of Canadians was 28. The average age right now is 44.We have an aging population and that is placing significant pressure on our healthcare system and none of the old-line parties have a plan to support our seniors and our aging population, that’s going to create a crisis in our healthcare system.”

He said unfortunately, “right-wing governments love a crisis because that leads to privatization.” He said the Greens would introduce a pharmacare program, which other parties have copied, and are the only ones with a solid plan and the only party “that recognize as long as we keep making people sick, we’re never going to have enough money to take care of our healthcare system. We need to clean up our environment. We need to care of our people,” he said to a loud applause.

McCarthy said the NDP does have a plan, It would provide 40,000 more spaces for homecare. “Which is something that our community needs with a median age over eight years older than the provincial average.” He said an NDP government would also provide more affordable and accessible housing for seniors and introduce a pharmacare program.

The candidates will meet again at the Dwight Community Centre on October 5, starting at 7 p.m.